This is a perfect example of a law that has unintended consequences that FAR outweigh the intent! That is my opinion and I stand by it! I will say right up front that I think it is bullshit when a person is told by the 911 operator to stop following, who we would later find out was, Trayvon Martin and continue to follow and eventually kill him. I think it is also bullshit that a man who doesn't like someone's loud ass music can fire 10 bullets into a car full of kids, killing Jordan Davis and not get convicted of murder.
I am a strong proponent of the second amendment and gun owner rights BUT something has gone horribly wrong here! Have the lobbyists some how convinced our lawmakers that our basic rights as human beings are less important than our rights to have guns and kill people seemingly at will without consequences? I am not busting on the jurors, they have specific instructions and my beef is not with them but he ones who created this crazy assed law.
I remember when I served in the military there was a very clearly defined definition of deadly force. That force which a person applies with the purpose of causing or which he knows or should know creates a substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily harm, to be used as a last resort, when lesser means have failed or can not be reasonably employed. I did not have to even look that up, we had to be able to recite that, I learned it 30 years ago. Lesser means have failed, or cannot be reasonably employed, hummmmmm. Drive the fuck away Michael Dunn, lesser means!
Title XLVI, Chapter 776 Justifiable use of force is a similar but very different than our military rules.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
I don't want to get mired in he details of the stand your ground laws but did want to just put a bit there for reference.
What I want to talk about a bit is the unintended consequences of the two cases and the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis. I will say that my perspective is from that of a middle aged white man, good bad or indifferent that is who and what I am. I do want to say that when I was a teenager I wandered around in hoodies and played music WAY to loud and did not get gunned down. It might not have been thumping bass but it was screaming AC/DC and Judas Priest and I was told on more than one occasion to turn that shit down, which I defiantly did not do!
I want you to think for a minute about the loud music. How many times have you heard the loud music thumping away when you were at a gas station? How many times have you confronted the offender in order to get it turned down? How many times have you just grumbled and wished they would turn that shit down? How many times have you thought, I will go back to my car, get my gun, fire 10 shots at the offending kids to get it turned down, and then just drive away and have pizza and wine with my girlfriend. There is a lot of music I don't like but NEVER once have I even contemplated getting gun to make it stop. That is fucking insanity, I don't give a damn how you slice it! Even if the kids did have a gun, why escalate the situation to include gun play because you are offended by some music? Why not just grumble and bitch about it to yourself and your spouse or girlfriend when you get back in the car? There may be a law allowing folks to kill others just because they feel threatened, even if they created the situation that caused them to feel threatened but that does not make it right! In my heart of hearts I know that is WRONG!
So, what have we really done? Do middle aged white men feel safer! Do young black men feel safer! Does anyone really feel safer? I say Hell No! Why, because if I were to even attempt to put myself in the shoes of a young black man and I was being confronted by a middle aged white man, I would consider shooting first and asking questions later - since two recent situations have shown that middle aged white men can get away with murder young black boys (they were both freaking teenagers)? I remember another saying from back in my military days, better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. So as the white guy, I am even more scared of the young black man, it ain't right but I can't know what it is like for them and I can sure understand why they may want to arm themselves. No one is safer, we are creating situations that perpetuate hate and distrust. How are we to move forward as a society when our laws are fostering the hate and distrust we are trying to get past?
I don't know what the answers are, I do know that what has been allowed to happen in these two cases is nothing short of craziness! I just can't understand how we have allowed laws that are nothing more than thinly veiled cloaks to invalidate the basic moral and ethic foundations (at least the spirit of the constitution) our country was built on.
I don't feel justice has been served, a young member of my community was gunned down by what I can only consider a crazy, angry, scared bigot and I am pissed that we were unable to convict him on that charge! I am also offended that the national news was calling this the loud music murder trial, this was the Jordan Davis murder trial, loud music was involved but a young man is dead. We are not talking about music being murdered, I think of Don McLean's America Pie and the day the music died when I hear that it minimizes the murder of Jordan Davis and that pisses me off!
Join me in raising prayers for wisdom and tolerance for everyone regardless which side you happen to be on.
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Well said. I don't feel any safer now. I feel like the situation is inflamed and I feel less safe now. The concept that you have the right to incite an argument, drive it to hostile levels and then shoot someone to protect yourself from a weapon they may or may not have is insane. In both cases aggressive behavior toward the victim, the victim being the teenaged boys not the shooters “standing their ground" is what escalated the situation. If either Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis pulled a weapon after the fact to protect themselves, they would have surely been convicted of murder. Pompus teenaged kids are a fact of life. Is our society so bent that we can't recognize the value of life?
ReplyDeleteIf I were on the jury I would have to ask myself if all other means to resolve the issue were exhausted before lethal force was used. For example, why didn't Michael Dunn move his car, why did he keep shooting when the suv was backing away, why did he not call 911 before or after the incident, and lastly, why did he park right next to the loud music, allow his fiance to get out and go inside and then address the boys if he felt so threatened? Moreover why did all the other patrons not feel threatened? Why were they coming and going without fear? Why did Jordan Davis or anyone not shoot back if they did have this mysterious weapon, and why did Michael Dunn flee when he was so obviously the agressor and NOT the victim. He could have left for safety and then called 911 and returned when the scene was secure. I can only infer from his actions that he had no intentions of sharing his side of the story. His intensions were to escape arrest.
If I were put in a situation where killing the other person was my only way to survive the assault, I would still be devastated that I had to kill someone. Even after the joy of realizing I had been spared, I would have grief in my heart for taking a life. I saw absolutely NO grief in Michael Dunn's eyes. Would he care if my daughter had been hit in the crossfire as we walked by? Or if other patrons were shot? There was no respect for any of the four victims. Yes I said four. Although Jordan Davis paid the ultimate price, the other three boys (men) will always wear the scars.
This is a severe breakdown in the system. "Stand Your Ground" needs to be repealed and broken down to a more fitting model of protection not assault against someone you disagree with.
Well said. I don't feel any safer now. I feel like the situation is inflamed and I feel less safe now. The concept that you have the right to incite an argument, drive it to hostile levels and then shoot someone to protect yourself from a weapon they may or may not have is insane. In both cases aggressive behavior toward the victim, the victim being the teenaged boys not the shooters “standing their ground" is what escalated the situation. If either Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis pulled a weapon after the fact to protect themselves, they would have surely been convicted of murder. Pompus teenaged kids are a fact of life. Is our society so bent that we can't recognize the value of life?
ReplyDeleteIf I were on the jury I would have to ask myself if all other means to resolve the issue were exhausted before lethal force was used. For example, why didn't Michael Dunn move his car, why did he keep shooting when the suv was backing away, why did he not call 911 before or after the incident, and lastly, why did he park right next to the loud music, allow his fiance to get out and go inside and then address the boys if he felt so threatened? Moreover why did all the other patrons not feel threatened? Why were they coming and going without fear? Why did Jordan Davis or anyone not shoot back if they did have this mysterious weapon, and why did Michael Dunn flee when he was so obviously the agressor and NOT the victim. He could have left for safety and then called 911 and returned when the scene was secure. I can only infer from his actions that he had no intentions of sharing his side of the story. His intensions were to escape arrest.
If I were put in a situation where killing the other person was my only way to survive the assault, I would still be devastated that I had to kill someone. Even after the joy of realizing I had been spared, I would have grief in my heart for taking a life. I saw absolutely NO grief in Michael Dunn's eyes. Would he care if my daughter had been hit in the crossfire as we walked by? Or if other patrons were shot? There was no respect for any of the four victims. Yes I said four. Although Jordan Davis paid the ultimate price, the other three boys (men) will always wear the scars.
This is a severe breakdown in the system. "Stand Your Ground" needs to be repealed and broken down to a more fitting model of protection not assault against someone you disagree with.
The only thing that stands between an innocent person and death by gunfire is often the judgment of the person carrying the gun. I think that if that statement isn't enough to frighten the hell out of you, then you should be worried about your self-preservation instincts.
ReplyDelete